Empowering Employee Voices: Crafting an Effective LinkedIn Advocacy Program with Danielle Guzman (Mercer)

TRANSCRIPT

Michelle J Raymond: [00:00:00] A global greetings to everyone. Welcome to The Good for Business Show. I'm your host, Michelle J Raymond and this episode of The Good for Business Show is one that is a encore, round 2, bringing back Danielle Guzman, because the last conversation we had was so amazing. So thanks so much for joining again, Danielle.

Danielle Guzman: You're most welcome. Thank you for having me. It's hard to not be like dancing as we get started after that intro. I love it.

Michelle J Raymond: I know and I'm pumped because we are gonna be talking about employee advocacy in a practical way today. And just, straight up, I was trying to invite people to come to this event and my head was confused because I was like, who do I invite?

Is it the sales team? Is it the marketing? Is it, somebody else within the business. If you are listening into this I'd love to hear who do you think that employee advocacy belongs to? And we're gonna go over some of this today. Danielle, for those people who have not come across you, can you fill us in? Who are you, what do you do, [00:01:00] and how do you help people?

Danielle Guzman: Absolutely. I'm the global head of social media for Mercer, which is a professional services firm, and we operate across the globe. We have about 38,000 employees. As a part of my role, I'm responsible for every facet of social media for the organisation, so all our organic channels, anywhere they exist, all of our paid media, influencer marketing, employee advocacy and anything else, social selling, anything that comes underneath the umbrella of using social media channels.

So it's exciting.

Michelle J Raymond: It is exciting. And you built that from the ground up, right? There wasn't anything in existing when you moved into that role. Can you tell us a little bit about how it all started for you?

Danielle Guzman: Yes. So there was a tiny little bit existing, so I actually joined the organisation in a different role.

I was in the global marketing organisation. And then I moved into social media just shy of a year after joining Mercer and at that time we had a teeny little pilot going for employee advocacy. And then we had an organic program and we had a little bit of paid. We had no influencer programming at that [00:02:00] time.

The advocacy program was kind of a very scrappy run. It had a couple hundred seats. It didn't have executive sponsorship and it was grassroots running from the ground up, but it had a lot of potential. So it was a fun place to jump into something, cause I do love building.

Michelle J Raymond: Now question for you, how would you describe employee advocacy?

Or define it? What is it exactly for people that may not be familiar with the term? How do you describe it?

Danielle Guzman: Ooh, that's a good question. I would describe it as the relationship that you have with your employees and how you enable them to share their points of view, wherever they may choose to do so. It's about empowering them, giving them the tools and the knowhow to do it in a very safe way, and a way that they are energised and wanting to participate in that conversation.

Michelle J Raymond: So not brute force. We're not just forcing people just because they work for the company, they should do it. We're not going down that path today.

Danielle Guzman: We're not. I, I see it. It exists, [00:03:00] but I'm probably not gonna recommend it.

Michelle J Raymond: I know. I come across it often. It's like, Okay, somebody created a strategy. We're gonna do employee advocacy. Let's go. Which I think just means let's post on social, that's about the extent of the thought, and that's why it's curious what you think it entails, because for the clients that I work with, it is, let's do some training, so people will post on LinkedIn about the company. That's the extent of it.

And it's so much bigger than that and so much more complicated because as I think you just said, it's about people, ultimately. The posting and the social comes later. It's about what's in the way for those people, what's in it for them, what will motivate them.

So let's talk about this practically. Let's say there's a business owner out or someone within a business out there that wants to build an employee advocacy program, what are some of the common pushbacks that you think that they're gonna come up against that they should prepare for?

Danielle Guzman: That's a great question. A couple of things come to mind. Number one is budget. Another one is just getting employee [00:04:00] participation. It's getting employees who might be keen to participate to actually prioritise it. Leadership support and buy-in, and then activation of that. It's one thing for the person to say, yes I'll be the support behind the program, but it's another thing to walk that talk.

The lack of strategy. Like actually what is this gonna do and how are we gonna use it? The connection to the actual business, right. A lot of people don't understand employee advocacy and they see it as another tactic or a gimmick or something. So you've really gotta connect it into the organisational goals, the KPIs, and the results to show them that this is real.

A lot of people will say It's not in my job description. So there's a huge opportunity to educate and talk about why this is really all about you. And then another one, which is really interesting is the whole concept of, we tend to often think of employee advocacy with a traditional work environment, but what about those organisations that might have a fleet of employees that actually don't work in an office environment?

Maybe they're in call centres, maybe they're in trucks, [00:05:00] working in different geographies. So how do you then connect the dots between people who are not in front of a computer all day long and engage them. So these are just a couple that come to mind. I'm sure there's more in the audience and it would be great to have them join in and add into the comments about some of the pushbacks they're seeing too.

Michelle J Raymond: Look, I think the one that you said, So I'm gonna do a quick role play here, which you don't know about. So you come to me and you say, Michelle, I want you to start doing this. I push back and I say, "It's not my job", which I think is something that is gonna come up a lot.

How have you overcome that within your business? Because for a lot of people, it's 'not their job', so what would you say to them and how do you get them on board?

Danielle Guzman: That's a great question. So it depends where the advocacy program sits, right? So if it sits in the sales organisation, so you're client facing and you have a revenue target and you need a pipeline, I agree, it's not your job, but then we can talk about how is your current way of working, working?

Is it working well for you or are you seeing [00:06:00] diminishing returns? How are you using digital and the other channels that are coming into play right now where your customers are? And then of course go to that meeting equipped to help them understand where are their target audiences going for information?

Where are they looking to make decisions? Because most of the time in the B2B space, by the time you get to that meeting with the sales professional, you've already done some research and you have your contenders ready. So you're looking for this person to either convince you that they made the right decision or to maybe tip the scale.

But most of the time the trains left the building. So try and put yourself in their shoes and help them understand the opportunity cost of doing this. And the same thing in marketing, right? As a marketing leader, you wanna be out on the platform maybe to build your professional careers and become known for things so that you can continue your career.

So again, look at what is it that would help them, what would interest them? And then connect those dots. And that's a really good way to pivot away from not my job, to what's in it for me.[00:07:00]

Michelle J Raymond: I've worked in sales for 20 years. I started social selling on LinkedIn eight years ago before I even realised what it was.

If you are someone that's listening in, that's in sales, it is the greatest tool to make sales so easy, that I fell in love with it. That's why I still do what I do today. I approach it because number one, there's no gatekeepers. It is so easy with some simple LinkedIn etiquette to reach decision makers. We know they're on the platform.

And so for me I literally got a $2 million sale, from a post that I did on LinkedIn and of course I'm gonna be addicted to things that work. Now, there was lots more smaller sales, there was building relationships. I had a lineup, you know, at trade shows when you go and someone's paid a lot of money for a stand and it's like sharks and fish and everyone's circling around trying to catch someone. I would have a lineup because they'd seen my content for so long and would come and ask me about it. So as a salesperson, I was like, this thing is [00:08:00] the best. Bring it on. Count me in.

I think the other pushback that I would add in there is often if we do this, our staff will get noticed and they'll get poached. And I know we spoke about that last time and you have a plan in that, but I think that's the other fear based reason that people don't want to get their employees visible on the platform. So for anyone that missed it last time, what would you say to that?

Danielle Guzman: That actually comes up so often. Listen, if an employee is going to leave because they become visible on social, there's a lot more happening behind the scenes that's already fueling that. So this is not what starts that conversation to exit, it just helps it accelerate. That's the first thing.

The second thing is, let's put a positive lens on this, you have all these employees that you've invested in deeply. They're on social media. They're doing the best that they can to advocate for themselves and the brand, and another company comes and takes them away.

The good news is during that lifetime with you, they've welcomed their community into your brand space and they've [00:09:00] built trust with that community, which in turn has built trust with your brand. So while employee X leaves, their community continues to be loyal and engage with you, so you actually gain quite a bit.

And assuming you've parted in positive ways, that employee goes forward with a very positive brand affiliation with you as well. So it's not like you've lost them. We have so many employees that either come back as boomerangs or they go on to other roles, but we see them pop up in our feeds and in our conversations, championing and cheering us on.

So I think it's really important to treat people the way you wanna be treated back and that know that they'll always remember that.

Michelle J Raymond: Look, I can't say anything better than that, so I'm gonna leave that here. But if we get past these roadblocks and push backs and say, we've got the buy-in, what do you think are the core components of a program that people need to factor in if they're at the beginning looking to set it up? What would you say are the cornerstones of a successful employee advocacy program?

Danielle Guzman: The first thing is just where does it reside? Who [00:10:00] owns it? Someone has to be driving this ship. And it may not be in the right place from the start, but as long as you can build a pilot and be able to demonstrate a proof of concept.

Another one is just a very clear goal. Why are you doing this? And then very clear alignment to the brand and to the purpose of the organisation and to how you're gonna demonstrate results, which takes us to how you're gonna measure success. So some clear KPI's. And have one. You don't need 10 KPI's to get started, just have one for a simple proof of concept. Technology comes into play, but you know, I think you can do it without it, especially for a smaller organisation and it's gonna be a deal breaker. Go at it without technology. You can use the platform on LinkedIn or other social channels to your advantage right now. You can get started. I mean, you will hit a ceiling, but it shouldn't be a limiting factor. But those will be the core pieces.

And then leadership sponsor. You need someone at the top that is gonna be standing behind you. I actually started without leadership sponsorship. We had it, but it wasn't, [00:11:00] I'd say, where we needed it to be. But we were able to show the ROI through a simple KPI that got attention. And then from there we were able to leap forward.

Michelle J Raymond: Yeah, if you don't get buy in from the top, I think it falls over very quickly because you either don't get the resourcing that you need or there's no real leadership that says this is an important part of the business, and the rest of the business should pay attention and support the program and I think they lead by example and without it, in my experience, I give it three months at best.

But we just mentioned metrics. What kind of metrics do you think are important? And I'm gonna talk about LinkedIn because obviously that's the main platform that I play on. Maybe it's different on other ones, but how would you measure it? What are the things? Is it as simple as the person posted? Is it the engagement that they get? Is it the new connections? What are we measuring that you think is most effective?

Danielle Guzman: Yeah, it's a great question. I almost feel like you need to bucket it right based on what the purpose for the program is. [00:12:00] If your program is sales we'll have certain KPIs. If it's talent, you'll have different ones. If it's business, so for example, let's say you're launching employee advocacy around talent, which is a big pillar for employee advocacy, then you might be looking at something as simple as the number of applications that the conversations your employees are driving around new opportunities that are being filled. And you might also look at the completion rate of hires. Very easy to track. You don't need tools and processes. You can use UTM coding, et cetera, and then your colleagues go out and post that you're hiring and you track it through. Very powerful. And when you start looking at the cost for recruitment to have your team go out and pay for ads on LinkedIn you can really quickly start adding a dollar amount to all those applications and those hires and quickly start to show that generated value.

If you're looking at it from a broader business perspective, start really simple. Honestly, if you're trying to get this off the ground and just prove a really quick ROI look at the reach. When you think about any organisation, [00:13:00] the connections, meaning that your people have, will have at least a five to 10 x multiplier on your company channel.

So just go and take a look at the reach of your employees. You do need a little bit of help with some technology for that, but you can quickly see if my company has, I don't know, 10,000 followers on its Company Page and my community that's talking about my company has 500,000. Even without anything else that already shows you a bigger footprint that you're getting in front of.

And when you think about the time, the effort that you put into putting your content on the channels, one of the things you do need is visibility. So these people are giving you visibility. Another one is click through. LinkedIn recently released a stat that employees that are sharing company content have at minimum of two x click through rate compared to brands.

So just looking at that and measure the clicks that you're getting from your employees versus the clicks that you're getting from your brand. We do this on a monthly basis and the multiplier effects is staggering, [00:14:00] especially as you start getting onto topics the employees are really passionate about.

But even on, I don't wanna say the dryer topics, some content that might have less appeal to an audience of colleagues, it still has a significant ROI. Look at Orange Media. That's another really great one, just easy out of the gate. Your marketing team probably has a budget for advertising. Your employees are gonna generate a lot more of that at a scale that your brand probably isn't investing in, especially for smaller organisations. But as you get bigger, that earned media it gets into the millions and millions.

So there's a couple of them just to get started, and then it evolves, right? So you get started, but as your program starts getting bigger, more mature, you start adding more layers of complexity in terms of what you measure and how.

Michelle J Raymond: Yeah, and especially if you've got people that are spread geographically, and I think the power is just as important for a small business as a multinational global company like yours.

I think what we're gonna see is that whole, if you are invisible on socials, do you really exist? [00:15:00] Because it's just becoming so critical because that's where people are, like that's where you find them. I go fishing where the fish are, is what I say. Like if it was somewhere else, you know, we'd be talking about different things, but the fact is, we've got coming up to, I would say in the next two years, probably a billion people sitting on LinkedIn.

The platform that's been around for 20 odd years just keeps on going. We'll see it evolve but I think there's always this factor that we've gotta just realise the importance of it. But also it's not quite so easy to just switch it on and let's just get everybody posting. And this is the thing that I wanted to have the conversation about with you is that, quite often when I'm doing training with businesses and I'm evolving as well in what I offer, the training isn't the whole solution, it's just one part. And we were talking yesterday in a post and you offered some great advice that there's different ways that you can enable employees. And some of that was, I think you suggested one on ones that could be a [00:16:00] masterclass, it could be something much more intense.

Is there anything else that you think's important back at that early stage to support employees to get them out there?

Danielle Guzman: I think again, even we learned through this experience too, it's natural for a brand to think brand first. So one of the biggest things is you've gotta lead with this is about your people, in all your communications. Yes, it's ultimately about the brand, but put your people first and make them feel like it's all about them. Recognise them from the very beginning and with that mindset, you're going to get more traction.

And then I agree with you, you can't have a one size fits all for training and it can be difficult. And this is where, again, you gotta start small. Pick one area of the business that you wanna focus on and then grow and scale from there. Because otherwise, treating everyone the same you're gonna flatline with your results. And I love the comment you made about having the training and then having kind of continuation to that because a lot of people learn differently.

So that's why we have some training is [00:17:00] recorded. Some is one on one. Some is experiential where we're actually on LinkedIn or on another platform doing things together. Some of it is you go through and take almost quizzes and tests, et cetera. Then some of it is peer to peer. So we have ambassadors that then do that training and they're able to share what their team members are doing and their successes and have them be a part of the training as well.

So you gotta try and find the different ways to connect with people to really make it relevant to them, so it sticks because otherwise they're not gonna form that behaviour and then they're gonna go online one day and be like, Why am I doing this? I have a lot of work to do, and they're gonna exit out. So you need to find a way to really make it meaningful for them.

Michelle J Raymond: Now, we spoke about recognition and reward as part of the overall process. So tell me about that, how do you keep people in the game for the long term, what do you think motivates people most? Does it need to be a firm KPI or are people just doing it because they're interested? I'm keen to know your thoughts on that side of [00:18:00] things.

Danielle Guzman: It's interesting and obviously we're a global organisation. Every market or country is a little bit different but if we zoom out to a global level, we absolutely focus on non-monetary rewards. And it's more emphasising recognition, opportunity creation. So for example, a lot of our, what we call top voices, which are kind of colleagues that are out there, they're truly building their personal brands. They're amplifying their voices, bringing points of view to life in their own words. We'll start connecting them with influencers that we work with, thought leaders in the industry and enabling them to build those connections and continue to scale against their goals.

We'll feature their content. We'll integrate their voices into our content. We'll leverage them for things like LinkedIn lives and Twitter chats and other kinds of events, building their visibility, but also recognising them. So we look at different ways to create valuable moments for them. And what's really exciting is when they come back and they start saying, I [00:19:00] was given an opportunity to contribute to a book, or I was asked to speak at an event or, I just got this new contact, or all these different things start coming their way. And that's like those aha moments.

And then when you start sharing those other people are like, how did John do that? I wanna do what John's doing. So that really helps. And then another thing we've also done is if we're doing a really big activation, sometimes we'll create like a recognition card and it'll tell that person, here's how much traffic you drove to our website. Here's how many clicks you drove. Here's how many downloads we actually got on this piece of thought leadership. Or here's how many registrations for this event, all because of the conversations that you're driving. And for some colleagues, who may not be in a sales capacity, how exciting is that?

And then now when you're talking about your performance with your manager, you can be like, in addition to my role, here's what I've done and I'm really proud of this and people get really excited about that.

Another thing I'll just mention too, when I first joined I was excited about this. I remember I [00:20:00] first joined Mercer. I was active on social media, but I was in a very different space and the Mercer brand tweeted back to me and we had a conversation and I was like, this is unbelievable. Like this global company is talking to me on Twitter and I'm interviewing with them. So I thought, this is really exciting.

That feeling exists across our colleague community and we can't forget that feeling because when the brand talks to you, it's a feeling of like Hey, I'm out here championing this and you are supporting me back. So you'll see the Mercer brand often talking to our colleagues, thanking them for sharing something. Applauding what they're doing, celebrating with them, and that's a really important piece of it. We wanna make sure that our colleagues know that we see you. We appreciate you.

Michelle J Raymond: Acknowledgement just goes so far, and I agree it doesn't always need to be monetary. I think it just being seen and heard and acknowledge that maybe someone is going above and beyond to make it happen in an already busy role, and that there is actually an impact, [00:21:00] for the brand just as much as the person and vice versa.

I talk about synergy all the time because you could have an amazing personal brand, but if you work for a crappy brand, it shuts doors and vice versa. Your employees can shut doors just as equally. So for me personally, you wanna work for the best of the best. That's why people are lining up trying to say, I worked at, companies like Google or like all of those tech companies, it's prestigious because of a whole bunch of things behind the brand.

It's not one or the other. I've had examples in my sales career where people have literally said to me, Michelle, we really like you. Yep. You are almost on the right price but we went with them because of X, Y, Z. They don't let me down with deliveries or they always help me out with this, your company doesn't. So you know if you are both on the same team going in the same direction with the same goals and aligned and you mentioned, brand purpose and I think that's something that's probably for the bigger end of town but [00:22:00] ultimately, I think it's always make sure that it's a team sport that we're all going in the same way.

It's not just the person that kicks the goal, scores the try, hits the home run, it's everybody in the team plays, including everyone and acknowledging those that wanna play. There might be others that just wanna cheer on to take that analogy a bit further. Maybe they don't wanna be seen out front, but they're happy to support people from behind. Meeting people where they're at.

Now, let's go back, let's take a moment and say, Danielle, when she was starting out, If you had that moment to go back in time and tell yourself a special lesson that you've learnt with experience, what do you wish you knew when you were starting out that you can share with people today?

Danielle Guzman: That's a good one. I think I'd have to go with two parts. First part is believe in yourself because this is the type of function and kind of strategy and role that you are always interacting with [00:23:00] people, and it doesn't matter what you say, people will feel your energy. They're gonna feel your passion. They're gonna connect with what you know and how you do it and why you do it. So you've gotta believe in yourself.

Um, the second part was walk the talk. This one's a big one for me. I'm constantly hiring colleagues on social media, and it's really important that if you're a social media strategist, that you actually use social media.

Now this becomes incredibly important in the employee advocacy space, and it can be limiting to what you are able to do with the program, because if you're working with sales, you're working with talent, you're working with executives, whichever area you're actually working with, you're training them. Now, you could know everything there is about LinkedIn, how it works, the aspects of your profile, et cetera.

But if they go to your LinkedIn profile and it's you've never posted, you're barely having a conversation yet here you are teaching them all the right things on how to do [00:24:00] it. It's not quite the same. That little secret sauce is missing. So there's really something to be said about walking that talk, so that they actually want to come to you and be like, Oh my gosh, how do I do this?

And that's something I wish I would've known when I first started because I was more focused on. This is how it needs to be done. And very thoughtful and methodical and thought no one's gonna wanna really experience it. And then we suddenly realize the more you become really engaged and then engage with them, go on the journey with them, it really becomes transformational.

And that's also why you'll see from our colleague community, there's so many of our colleagues that actually talk to one another online. It's almost like water cooler moments across the globe of our own colleagues connecting and chatting. Because we're there, It's no difference than an intranet, but it's external and the whole world can see it.

But that's wonderful, right? It only gets to show a little bit more about what it's like to work here. So that would be my big takeaway I think is really something to think about. And if anyone is joining us and is in employee advocacy you obviously know what you're doing. [00:25:00] So just start believing in yourself and start doing it as you train others.

Michelle J Raymond: So question for you. Timelines. What's realistic when we are starting out? Cause I often find that the businesses that I work with have an unreal expectation that this thing is done in three months. You know, Or even shorter. The timeframes are often, we did the training, we start tomorrow, everything's perfect from then on.

How long realistically does it take to become part of the business over time? Can you put a timeline on it? I know it's a bit how long is a piece of string, but in reality I just see people give up far too soon when they're building things like this, like brand awareness and brand take time. Would you put a number on it?

Danielle Guzman: Yeah, so I I guess I answered it both two ways. So one, if you're talking about the actual program itself, six months, I think is a fair ask for a pilot to be able to [00:26:00] just show some preliminary results. And more often than not, depending on how big your social infrastructure is, but let's assume it's just getting started or it's moderate.

You should be able to at least match, if not exceed, where you're currently performing with your advocates, just because of the scale of what they do. And that's gonna be able to demonstrate really quickly either that, look, we're trending to surpass and it's only been six months, so you're gonna be able to get more buy-in investment, et cetera.

When we're talking about taking colleagues on a journey to become active. I look at four waves of 30 days. So we don't do this with all colleagues because not everyone is ready to go on that journey or wants to. But those that wanna go on that journey, we do it in 30 day increments and then there's almost like homework in between each. And then as you do that, the next 30 days, the next 30 days, and then we give them like a scorecard. So right now, day zero, capture a couple aspects of your performance, how you work and then you have measurement points. So they can [00:27:00] see their own progress every 30 days. And by the time you work your way through, assuming they go all the way through once they come out on the other end they're hooked.

They see the value, they're living the value, and they become just a strong advocate. And we do that in a very kind of targeted and strategic way. So that we do that aligned to key business conversations, key geographies, so that you can start building kind of your employee advocate voices in different places to support the priorities that you're focused on.

Michelle J Raymond: " I love it. And I do believe wholeheartedly that visibility brings opportunity and that is what is in it for most people. When people know you exist, whether it's within the business, outside of the business, be it customers, be it industry those opportunities do come. So every week on the show, I know you've given us so much, throughout the last half an hour, but every week I also ask the guests to leave us with one actionable tip that you could give people listening in that might be thinking, "Yeah, this is important. Maybe I should do it." Is there something that you would say, [00:28:00] Go and do this today to make that, one step closer.

Danielle Guzman: It's hard depend not knowing where our audience is coming from, but let's assume you're focused on employee advocacy. I would say go back and take a look at your community and see, identify who those top voices are.

You should have about 1% of your community that is driving 80% of your results. And then go to that 1% and thank them. And then ask them, what can you do to help them become more successful on their journey? And then the last part of that would be, and then take that 1% and integrate them into what you are doing with the remaining 99% of that organization.

Because people love to see how their peers are succeeding and the ways that they're innovating so that they can also follow on their journey.

Michelle J Raymond: Oh, I love it. As always, you are a superstar. I have learnt so much in this conversation, as I always do. Thank you to everybody that has joined us today.

 Next week it's a bit of a [00:29:00] change on the show. We are going to be talking about youTube podcasting, which is a reasonably new thing that YouTube are putting out there. Zach Mitchem is gonna be my guest next week, so very excited to have that. Danielle, I appreciate you joining us, and thanks for coming back on round two.

Danielle Guzman: Thank you so much for having me. It's a conversation I love to have, cheers. I appreciate you.