Rising Above the LinkedIn Noise: Nemanja Zivkovic's B2B Growth Formula

Michelle J Raymond: And hello everyone. Welcome to the LinkedIn for B2B Growth Show. I'm your host Michelle J. Raymond, and I am joined by LinkedIn's top 10 marketers to watch, Mr. Funky Marketing himself, Nemanja Zivkovic. Look, I am so excited to have you here because you and I have been bouncing around in the content.

I like to have people on the show that have strong opinions, different opinions, and you certainly tick all of those boxes for me. But there might be some people out there that haven't come across you before. So tell them who are you, what do you do, and who do you help?

Nemanja Zivkovic: Yeah, sounds good. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here, even though I don't have that radio voice like you have. I envy you for that. Like my wife, my wife has one. But, my background is in activism, and youth work. So I found out how to get the value first, then the money will follow. Then I worked for almost 10 years in B2C and finally moved to B2B.

When I started my own company, I talked to like, 250, 60, people on LinkedIn cause that's what I had the network. And I found out the gap that seems like not many other companies are filling in. That was three years ago and that was like B2B was too foggy, mystic, no humanity, no emotions, nothing.

And I saw that I can fill it in with what I know with B2C strategies. So, I nailed it. What we do right now, we help B2B tech companies combine strategy and research with creatives to help them create demand the way B2B buyers buy now.

So with, social, with communities and creating relationship with their customers.

Michelle J Raymond: So tell me, in the three years that you've been looking after B2B, before we dive into some of the topics I wanna cover today, what do you think has changed? So I've been on the sales side of B2B for 20 years. Back when it wasn't glamorous, I didn't even know it was a thing back when I first started.

I've always worked with manufacturing companies, and so for me, it's just been a natural part of my career to be in B2B. It's only been recently for me on LinkedIn that I too have noticed the big push and the big change from B2C being all glamorous and getting the attention to all of a sudden B2B has. What did you see and what are you seeing now on LinkedIn?

Nemanja Zivkovic: First thing that that I see is companies stopped thinking about their ideal customers as buildings, right? There's actually people, there's a team over there that they need to win to get the account, get the customers. The second thing is the role of marketing is still evolving and changing.

In B2C marketing is what sales actually, there are no sales teams in, in B2B it's kind of different cause marketing was doing digital sales. B2B companies are sale companies and that's only what they know. So marketing is evolving and getting to the point. Still not there. We are reaching that point when it does you know, finds and, shows the unfair advantage of the company through go to market strategies, and basically help facilities, the buyer journey.

And with that comes the feelings, emotions. We uncover so many biases. Cause we think that in B2B we, we make decisions rationally, but it's not true at all. We'll finally get in there revealing all those things. And, with marketers actually getting closer to the revenue, getting access to the crm, learning how to look at data, how to read things. I think we are we. witnessing the whole new generation of, of great marketers coming up.

Michelle J Raymond: I think it's exciting because even if I look back in my career for the companies that I worked for, did we have a marketing team? No, not really. It wasn't even something besides some brochures or maybe if we went to a trade show the team got involved and created that kind of collateral.

But as far as being proactive, it was never really part of the conversation. And so it's been really interesting to get involved now, kind of flipping to the other side. I'm kind of part marketer, part sales, and I think to your point, that's more and more what we are seeing. So it's really interesting for me to watch this evolution play out.

It's exciting. You can see LinkedIn just by how much they're promoting B2B on the platform. So we're gonna talk about, how do you use LinkedIn more leads, better quality leads, lower conversion costs. We wanna keep that pipeline full, so, I'm gonna pick your brain and we're gonna step through the process overarching that you recommend that other B2B business should start to implement on LinkedIn.

But before we even get on there, I know that there's a lot of work that needs to be done upfront, and we're gonna call that customer research, but where do you think a brand should start before they even get onto LinkedIn in this space?

Nemanja Zivkovic: Start with realizing that they actually need to do the customer research, right?

So many companies don't do that. And there's a thing that I said that marketing has evolved and has been evolving. One of the things related to that is they've been scared to talk to the customers or they didn't have the way to do it. Now it's much easier I mean, not for everybody, but still, we are all there on social, we are all there in communities.

It's much easier to go and have a virtual coffee with the potential customer or the current customer even. I usually like to start with the current customers. Have a conversations with them and find out, like what's the feedback. On our work, on our product, on our service, whatever we are doing.

 How did they actually come up with hiring us, right? Or working with us? How is that process going? Where do they go to get educated? Where would they go if they want to replace us? And it's funny how, little companies actually do these conversations because I've done it with a lot of companies and in 80% of them, they got the ideas for the new products or the new services directly from the customers.

The second thing is, new and potential customers. If you don't have them, it's quite difficult to do it, to be honest. To get that one-on-one and ask them directly the questions, I mean you can try over LinkedIn or other social you are on. But what can help is, podcasts like this one, you can go and you can find out a lot of leaders are actually sharing not only the business stuff, but stuff related to their life. Like what wine do I drink? I said, now that I have a wife that has a similar radio voice, for example, you know, those kind of small things. Like what's behind me on the screen, those things can help a lot, start the conversation.

What I like to do, a lot of companies when they start, they usually go and they say, ah-ha, we need to start with advertising first. Right? That's most directly way to reach the customers. But I said, okay, so the step before that is talking to the customers first, right? So why don't we combine the two?

And it's exactly the podcast. That's why I think the podcast is booming cause it has so many different function and different activations. And we can use it to kind of have a conversation with the customers, ask them all the questions that I just said and even more. And basically find out how are they behaving in different stages of the buyer's journey in one conversation.

So basically we are creating content with our customers and involving them in distribution. And that one thing is I mean, the simplest way to win, but it's f unny how, so many companies don't, you know, go into that.

 One thing that I want to mention in customer research, is finding out do you actually have somebody in the company who can talk to the customers that way? Who can get those answers? Cause it's not only happening in one-on-one conversation, it's happening in the communities on Slack, in different communities on LinkedIn, in Facebook groups.

So you need to find that person. Cause that's the bridge between you and the customers. They know how to talk with them, how to get the insights, but at the same time, they know how to tell the story of your company.

Michelle J Raymond: Yeah, and it's really interesting cause if I think back, my roles were always key account managers, out customer facing, asking all of these questions that you talk about.

That was my job to ask as many questions as possible. And I am the person that if I stand behind you at the supermarket while we're waiting for the checkout to go through, I will find out your life story. Because that's what I've been trained to do for so long. Have I implemented that so great in my business now?

No, I don't think I have. You know, because doing it online becomes a bit challenging. Although I also have access to 875 million LinkedIn members. I can join groups, I can attend live events, I can go to LinkedIn audios. I think we've got all of these really great tools on LinkedIn that we can have conversations with people, and I think when this sales team and the marketing team, team up and trust each other to have those conversations. I think there's an upside for the sales team to hear some different questions get asked, and I think having no fixed opinion as they go into it. no history with the customer, it is just from a blank slate, you know, what's your day like, tell me about it and there's lots and lots of upsides,

Say, we've had these conversations and we've done the work to actually get in and understand the customer. A day in the life of the customer is what I like to call it. Let's move to differentiation, because again, here's what happens in my experience, people wanna just jump to create content.

We're not even anywhere near this point yet, so if we're all the same, same in the sea of B2B, then your product doesn't stand out, your business doesn't stand out, you've got zero chance. So tell us what are your expert tips when it comes to differentiation?

Nemanja Zivkovic: If you Google now the number of for example, SaaS companies over there, you will find out that map that you cannot even read the name of the company because there are so many of them.

So to be able to stand out, you need to do something differently, right? And it doesn't need to be something that's mind blowing. It can be a simple thing, go with analyzes and analyze, first yourself and your company. You know who you are, what are your values?

What's your story? The story starts with the founder and evolves , with you adding different people to your team. Right? So, if you go and look at the stories from Google, from, Netflix, from other companies, they were completely different stories when they started.

 That's how it evolves. People say, where do we find the inspiration, how it goes? I like to look at the market and see what the competitors are doing as the second step, not as the first one, and actually see where are the gaps. Where we can go and differentiate and the third step is usually the one, for me, that's the most interesting one that goes along well with the first one.

And it is finding inspiration outside of your niche, of your industry and outside of business even. I like to go with sports, with music, with comics, with different kind of things. Why am I saying that? Because you need to know what's the story of your company when it enters the room, but anywhere your name appears anywhere, there needs to be a story related to that.

I like to think that at Funky Marketing, we have that funk related to that. The story of Funky Marketing basically is the story of Marvin Gaye singing, the National Anthem of the US I think it's in 1997 on an NBA All Star. He was, left on the side by everybody because of depression, drugs and everything else.

 They , didn't even know if Marvin Gaye is gonna show up. At the moment when it should happen, he just came straight to the center of the court. The music starts and it was the music, which, sounded more like, "Let's Get It On" than the national anthem.

 Nobody knew, but it was the all star with the biggest stars of the game. So, Patrick Riley, Patrick Ewing, Magic Johnson, all the players, they were around the court and he started to sing. Audience was first confused. Then they started to clap, then they started to sing. It's the first time that somebody sang the national anthem in a different way. It was amazing.

So we come from Serbia in a small country, nobody counts to get what they get from us. But when we come in, I want us to perform and, get the wow effect when people see what we are doing.

Michelle J Raymond: That's the whole thing. We've gotta be memorable. We've got to, in the sea of all that our brains are taking in all day, every day, especially on socials. How do you be memorable so that when I've got a need, I can recall your business and stories are definitely one way I've seen. Characters can be another one. Cartoons, potentially. These kinds of things create an anchor point in our brain so that we can go back and distinguish your business out of other businesses.

So, they're a couple of important steps. So we've researched with our customer, we've found what makes us different which I think is really important.

But then we're gonna move on to the importance of messaging. And again, we're still nowhere near LinkedIn yet. These are the prep work that if we do this upfront, the results come faster and they're more aligned with your target. So in your experience, the importance of messaging, where does that play out on LinkedIn and why is it important to do it upfront?

Look,

Nemanja Zivkovic: I think the most important thing that differentiates messaging, positioning all these things comes from the research, right? We get those answers from the customers. Cause we need to innovate. It can be the story, it can be the product, it can be the messaging, it can be the positioning. But if we just grow with the market, we will lose in the big run. So we need to pay attention on that. And messaging is important because we need to know how we are talking with our ideal customers.

How do we get into the right conversations with them? What are their triggers? What are their frustrations? I think that's the first one. Cause I think we don't have ideal customers if we don't have the frustrated customer. Cause they are not, they don't have the urge, you know, that from sales.

They don't have the urge to solve the problem. If we don't have the customer that has the urge to solve the problem, we are not even close to that. And what I like to do with messaging is have, a say, which is, basically personification of what the customers think, but cannot say for, for one reason.

Right. I, I like to, to have that our copy, our text, what are we saying on a website? Even the visuals are not only the differentiation, but they are the words of our customers, and they will recognize themself in that. And, Hey, I have the same F problem, right? This is what I see, and finally, this guy or this company is revealing that to me or giving me the solution for that.

Because this is what I want to see if, when I'm buying from somebody else, right? I want to see how they're solving my problems. But the most important thing is I want to see how they are actually related to me personally, not to somebody else.

Yeah, that's so true and the more that you can put it in their words, the more that you are right. We're staring at that screen going, oh my God, somebody finally gets me. That is exactly my problem. That is oh my God, do you have the solution? And this is where that fireworks goes off. And it's that instant attraction that you've got to that person because they realize that you see them. They're not invisible, they're not a number, they're not a cliche.

And they're actually something that your business takes notice of. And it feels like it's personal, you know? And this is something that I'm starting to. Discover for my own business. I, I've been in my business for coming up to two and a half or so years, and it's something that when I first started off, I was not clear.

I was literally who wants to buy from me? I think I can do this company page management thing and that was about it. You know, please buy from me and as long as I got invoicing. And so that was fine in the first year because I wanted to prove that I could set up a business. Year two, it became different because then I was like, actually I don't really like doing so much of that.

And I don't really wanna be known as just that. I wanna be known as not just the company page person, but someone's got a heart and cares about community, which I didn't show the year before. And so I've evolved as I've gone on and I think my website and a few other things need to evolve with that, where I have the confidence to shout out.

Hey you, you are my exact kind of person I wanna work with. I'm the right person that will fix your problems. And I think we don't see enough of that with LinkedIn content. I think LinkedIn content becomes so blur and just same, same regurgitated drives me crazy, which is why I enjoy your content so much cuz it's never just, you know, out of the box.

Same as what I can read on 20 other people. I think the more that. Can distinguish themselves with their own tone of voice, their own words, their own, values, their own messaging. That just makes you stand out so much.

And so, yeah, let me elaborate a few, a few things. Why, why is that happening?

You know, the one thing that I'm seeing is, why is my content like that? Cause basically I write it myself and I write about the things that I do, that I see. That I hear. So it's not something that I you know, read from somebody else and then I'm, you know, rephrasing it. Right? A lot of people are.

The other thing, which is I think the biggest problem is that so many bull eyes are on the content inside the company before it ever sees the light of the day or the LinkedIn. Right? And because of that, I quit in the company working with the unicorn here from this area because in two months we could not post a single post.

And I was. I don't need to determine if it's the good content. You don't need to determine if it's the good content. The customers need to do that. And I like LinkedIn. From that perspective, it gives us the clear view of the messaging. For example, one thing that are, that I'm always concluding for some reason, I don't know what it's happening seems to, I need to align my messaging, but I'm always going before the whole wave is going after me, right?

Mm-hmm. It was lead gen to dimension. Nobody reacted that well when we started, but in six months I repeated the same post and they're getting the traction. Even now, I'm repeating from time to time, the post from a year ahead, from the six months ago, and they are getting the traction. Even the people, the same people who reacted to those comments, they don't.

So I tag them again and I say, it happened yesterday or the day before. I tag the same person and I say, Hey, this is, what would say this guy, he came in pneumonia. You took the words outta my mouth. , I literally did that because you, you are the one who said it. But then I get the continuation and how they evolve with that, you know, and I like to take that creative and an article out of it.

And basically then we have the total leadership unique. .

Michelle J Raymond: Yeah. And unique is the key word here. We don't need more of same, same, like there is enough of that on the platform. If I look back to my manufacturing jobs, it's probably why so much of our business in Australia are manufacturing work, went overseas to countries like China or anywhere in that kind of part of the world.

And I don't think it was necessarily, we had the capabilities, we had the technology. And yes, maybe it could have been cheaper, but I think if there was a really strong brand and messaging behind it, it wouldn't have been quite so simple, quick, let's just go overseas and, send the work over there.

Because we could have built a brand to protect that much more. , and I think that's what brands are now starting to see in B2B world, is that this is your ticket for a lot more security. In a world that's a bit up and down, there's potential, financial crisises of varying levels around the world.

Some people will miss it, some countries will get, dive straight down and others will be dragged into it. So it's really interesting to see how, I think that this will actually. Position brands to, win more business.

Ultimately that little salesperson in me is always gonna be here. That's what I'm on LinkedIn for, to grow businesses and it's my favorite part now. We hear storytelling when it comes to personal brands a lot. It's kind of a bit of the flavor of the year, I think last year in 2021. Storytelling personal stories, and I think there's a bit of a mix between sharing your deep, dark secrets and storytelling as a way to grow your brand.

But talk me through how you see businesses can use stories to really reinforce and build their brands.

Nemanja Zivkovic: One thing I can connect with what you just said and where are we going, going to, like, manufacturing, industrial, those industries are known as boring, right? Even the people from the industry will say boring.

But if you get all the things that we just said, so get to know the founder, get to know the people out there you will be able to differentiate from the others. I know what I'm buying in manufacturing or the industrial, right? I know what I'm looking for, but I, I don't necessarily need to choose the biggest one on the market.

But if I know your connection, I wouldn't even go to Google. That's how I see those industries, right? I wouldn't even go to Google. I would go to the person that I know that is doing those things because, I recognize myself in them, in those things that I'm doing. And it also reflects on the story of the brand, right?

As we say, it starts from the founder, it evolves with people working in the company. But the thing is I think there are a lot of companies overthink the the storytelling and the brand and all those things, like, especially in, in B2B tech when I'm working, like people are building that technology, right?

And a lot of people have a lot of stories and usually companies like to hide those people. So the competitors don't get them or those kind of things. But if you set up the right culture with the right values, find the people who are different but are unique united with the same values they will feel free to share their stories.

And all their stories are united in one, which is the, the company story. I like to always go and check out the examples from, from B2C when going into the B2B, like Airbnb is one. Mm-hmm. . So, if you look at what they, they're doing, they have the story, they have relationship with people, but whether they're doing their meeting the customers halfway. They don't wait for the customers to come to them. What does it mean? It means that when we go to the Air BnB find the apartment, they say, Hey, here's where you can go to eat. Here's what you can visit .Here. What's happening in the city at the moment here the nearest city around it that you can also visit here is where you can buy cheaper tickets.

You know, those kind of things. Mm-hmm. . So they are giving us. A lot more because they're personalizing the conversation and the message to us. And how did they actually build the brand? Because they say there are hotels over there, they are more like plastic. They don't feel like home. We are gonna literally get you into somebody's home.

 When you'll have the same feeling as you have in your home. So you. That's the story. when we look at, some others I mentioned like, before the Netflix, Other companies, another brand, they want to keep doing the same thing without going the story, without creating the brand. But the customers evolve as having you know, those kind of experience with specific brands. They will demand from the others to, to have the stories, to personalize the story to them and go with that. What I like to do related to the story, I like to go and create a strategic.

It covers also differentiation, messaging and positioning. I like to use Andy Raskin framework. I mean the, the guy created it. We don't need to do anything else related to that.

If it works, use it.

Yeah, basically it goes with a bigger change. Starts with a bigger change, not with a problem. So people feel more comfortable talking about the problem. If it's not only me, then I will share it, Right? Then the second one is good versus bad, or old versus new. When we actually go and. Add all the things that we have found out in the research is the most difficult part when we have the data to show them that we are not just talking nonsense.

When we talking is actually happening, the change is actually happening. The third part, the third one is the promised land. How does it look like if we get them? How does it look like? This is basically where we create the story, where we help them visualize all those things. Only the number four is when we start talking about ourselves.

How can we actually get them to the promised land? We are the Robin, they are the Batman, we are the lightsaber, they're the Luke Skywalker.

 The last part is the proof that we can take actually somebody to the promised land. So when you look at it like that, it's easier to go and have an overview of the company and see what we have. Do we have the way to differentiate ourselves?

Is our story big enough so people will care? Do we support it with the data? How does it look like what we want to achieve with the companies? Do we have the right product or the right service to actually help them get there? And the last one is, have we actually help somebody else do it? You know, do we have testimonials, case studies and those kind of things.

And it's easy way to craft the story and then go into creating the strategy.

Michelle J Raymond: Funny you mentioned Netflix because it's actually one of my favorite LinkedIn company pages. I love the way that they align their company values to the content that they actually have on Netflix. So there's a direct correlation between what they stand for and what they put on as their shows, and they connect the two.

And I think it's a really cool way because you would think, why would they need to be on LinkedIn? Everyone in the whole world's been watching Netflix for the last couple of years. Or is it just me? Ultimately, why do they connect? Well, because they're trying to attract top talent in this particular, And create a space that, you know, what kind of a place it is to work for.

But it's really creative the way that they put those things together so that it's a story that you recognize from your TV back to their values. And it's a really easy connection and it's really powerful. And one of my favorite pages that I always recommend people follow just to see how they do that particular connection now from,

Nemanja Zivkovic: I gotta, I gotta say I've never seen the Netflix page on LinkedIn, shame on me.

Michelle J Raymond: It has millions of followers. It's a huge page. And it was one that I stumbled across and then wondered why they were on there, was my first question. And then when I started to dig into the content, I was like, You guys have got this. It's a good mix. You see employees behind the scenes.

You see the content that they're putting out. You see things that are going on in the world, and I just like the way that they really rotate it. So go and check that one out.

To wrap things up and I don't wanna skip over this one. I was thinking, should we, shouldn't we? But B2B brands and communities, I think that's where we're headed for the next five years.

I don't know. Beyond that, you are potentially maybe a more a futurist than me in that capacity, but I really believe that brands that build communities in the B2B space are the next evolution of where we're headed. How do B2B brands on LinkedIn build relationships for business growth? How does that actually happen?

Nemanja Zivkovic: Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily say that it's community. When we look at the LinkedIn, it's the followers and it's the relationships, right? I'll give you the whole thing from start to beginning. I think that can give a great value, to the people listening how you can do it. So we said doing the analysis first, then, basically it'll give us the ideal customer.

And what I found out is that we talked, yesterday on LinkedIn that our ICP is not the same in, outside of LinkedIn and on LinkedIn. Cause they need to have this one thing attributed to that and it's being active on LinkedIn. So that's why I like to go and work a little bit more differently.

But I start with you know, every company that has sales has 5,200 accounts that they want to close, right? So why don't we go and ask, invite all of them to a conversation, to an interview, to a podcast. So we ask them all the questions that we mentioned. Basically we have 50 minutes before the call. We have 50 minutes after the call so we can actually talk about what we do, right? Get to know ourself and start creating that relationship. Basically out of an hour conversation we can have. Three to five, even sometimes eight smaller parts that are communicating different stages in a buyer's journey. So, what we can do is basically, you know, share them on LinkedIn, tag the person on our personal profiles.

I like to go to set up if it's the CMO or is somebody from sales, or we have even the CEO and Founder that's the best version. And we actually go and share those things on the company page. We share as we tag the, the person and basically we grow the page by emphasizing the personal brands of our customers.

So our ICP, so we give them the space on the page while we are doing. We are connecting with more people from the same company. So from the personal profiles of the people from from marketing and from sales, so they can, so we can have more eyeballs in the content. Basically we have, we are creating content.

We are ICP and we are also going in there. So, additionally to that, so now we, we cover the content. We have our story, we have the story of the customers. We go and we do the second step and its how we connect actually with the people. So, okay, we have our ICP, we know who we are adding cause we need to add new people.

Our. First batch of people that are seeing our posts is growing, right? Besides the company we are targeting. So we connect with different people and I like to go and give them two weeks or a month or even month and a half, sometimes. Without sending them the message to actually consume the content.

Right. I will, I will engage on their posts have comments, but I won't send them the welcome message. I will do that after, let's say two weeks when they already know who I am. They have seen me in the feed, and when I, they know that my content is quality one, and when I send them the message, I can just go and say, Hey, hey, welcome.

I just wanted to drop a line and say, Like, trust me, I once do that and I get, can we schedule a call? It was too fast. That was too fast. But it happens because people are consuming the content and they were just waiting for the right moment. As you said, those that are not active are always the ones that are somehow the ones that see the value, then they reach out or you reach out and they, hi, wanted to reach out this guy, or, or this woman you know, a long time ago, but it didn't, if they didn't reach out, it would never.

Right. So, so those things are happening and I would like to do, so I need somebody to come to react to my post. So additionally to that, we develop you know, do the research and find out like five to 10 accounts, which are let's call them influencers, but those are the most important people for.

So it can be somebody who is recognized by the people from our industry, from our peers on LinkedIn. It can be somebody who is going after the same target group, or it can be somebody who is our peers, right? Those are people that have from 200 to like say thousand people reacting with their comments on their post.

What we want to do is we want to steal that audience from. How do we do that? By adding people, of course, by connecting with them, but also by being the first, who will add the most meaningful, valuable comment over there in the post. Also, by doing that, we are getting the feedback from our opinions, our content and insights, so we can elaborate in our own posts, involve that person into our content, and that's also give us another layer of growth.

So, so basically, Step by step. We are creating relationship with not only the target group, it starts with that, but we are creating relationship with all the people that we are related to in any way on LinkedIn. Cause we don't know what will happen in two months, in three months in six months in a year.

Cause it's crazy market. Everybody's changing positions, changing jobs, opening companies. We don't know who will be our ICP in a few. ,

Michelle J Raymond: Absolutely and there is a lot of change going on in the world. We see layoffs happening, left, right, and center. You don't know where someone will end up in their next role or who's changing roles within a company.

So I love that you go wide. I love the whole idea of obviously making relationships with as many micro influencers and targeted, I think is the key word here. Not just a popular account for the sake of being a popular account. That doesn't work. It's a waste of time. You're being seen by the wrong sets of eyes.

Go and find somebody that's more related to the industry so that you are seen by the right sets of eyes. There's an element of, yes, we all wanna enjoy LinkedIn and our time on there and you can do some stuff for fun that just because you enjoy it, I don't have a problem with that.

But if you are tasked with the job of growing your business through using LinkedIn. Then the more targeted you are, the more research that you do upfront, which we've just covered. Then again, the higher the success rate, the faster the turnaround times, the more quality business that you'll get, and I think that's the thing that people need to understand. All the steps that you've explained is what we do before we even get onto the platform, is what makes it easier when you're on there. And if you just post and hope for the best, it doesn't work. It's just demoralizing. When after a while you're like, LinkedIn doesn't work. Actually LinkedIn does. We're both proof our businesses are thriving because of LinkedIn and there's many others that.

So I always like to wrap the show up with one tip from my guest about what they think people should pay attention to right now for business growth on LinkedIn specifically, if you could narrow everything that we've covered over today, what is the one tip that you would like to leave the listeners with?

Nemanja Zivkovic: Oh, that's interesting. I would give a different advice, a few months ago or even now. One thing what I would, say to the people, watch out what everybody else is doing, and go the other way. Zig, when people are zagging, like literally, you can, create the buzz on LinkedIn from the right customers just by saying what other people are saying wrong.

You know, cause I, I see a lot of people go into, you know, I see that works. Let me do that as well. Let me go only with hammering over the pain points. Like those things are good and but other people will also give those answers. Yeah. That's the playing in obvious space, right? That's why AI will, will give us playing in obvious space, but try to get do some things which are not obvious.

Michelle J Raymond: Love it and I can only echo that. I think it's about trying things that are different. It's about not trying to copy other people their success. I hear it. Companies like Gong, we wanna be like Gong. Well you can't because it's their brand values, it's their culture, it's their everything that happens, customer service. Like a whole bunch of things behind the scenes.

That's the whole thing. And so we can't just copy whether it's them, Refine Labs, whoever. It doesn't matter who it is. You can't be any other company, and I think that's the lesson from today. The more that you distinguish your B2B business from others is where the success will come.

You have shared above and beyond everything that I expected today, I am so grateful. I'll be putting your LinkedIn profile in the show notes, and I encourage everybody to go to your profile.

Underneath the banner on the top right hand corner is a bell. Click that so you get notified of all of Nemanja's posts because ultimately I learn so much from you. I appreciate you and everything that you bring. And I would love if my audience reach out, if they connect, let them know that you listen to this podcast, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day. Cheers.