Employee Empowerment: Cher Jones on LinkedIn's Personal Brand Revolution

FULLY EDITED TRANSCRIPT

014 Turn your Employees into Enthusiastic LinkedIn Creators. Guest: Cher Jones

Michelle J Raymond: [00:00:00] Welcome everybody to the LinkedIn for B2B Growth Show. I'm your host Michelle J Raymond, and this week I am excited cause we've bounced back over to the other side of the world. Welcome to the show, Cher Jones.

Cher Jones: Hello and thank you for having me. I am excited to hang out on the other side of the world. I think those are what, 12 hours ahead of us.

Michelle J Raymond: I've lost track. We've just gone over daylight savings, so it's anyone's guess what time zone anyone's in these days. But I have a question for you before we dive into the real questions. How did you get started on LinkedIn? What's your journey been like?

Cher Jones: So I'm a LinkedIn OG and so that's original gangster. I've been on LinkedIn. I have the the screenshots to prove it. I think it was like two, what was it? Maybe 2004, 2005. So like way back when, like they had numbered profiles and I've always believed that LinkedIn is the place to be even before it was the place to be.

And it's just one of those things where it was like, it was always the right audience, even when it [00:01:00] was a job searching site. And it was just something that as LinkedIn matured and grew, cause there was a time when there was no video on LinkedIn. There was a time when everybody was just sharing links and that was a big thing. And your strategy was share five, six links a day and that's how you showed up on LinkedIn.

And to now we're, there's live streaming videos, audio rooms, and so much more. So I've been around for a long time, watched it happen and I have a marketing communications background with a little side of broadcasting. So it keeps it fun and interesting.

Michelle J Raymond: So that explains why you love LinkedIn live so much, I'm gonna guess.

Cher Jones: Oh, absolutely. LinkedIn Live is just like TV on my own terms. So I went to school for broadcasting. I worked in sports broadcasting for a very long time. And then also some magazine style television shows. And this was something when I could go live for the first time, even before LinkedIn, this was something like, oh my gosh, this is my show.

I can do it the way I want. And so yeah I'm a [00:02:00] fan, LinkedIn live.

Michelle J Raymond: We are both the same. I picture myself as like Oprah doing big giveaways. You get a car and you get a car, everyone gets a car. That's my dream. But it started back at the beginning because I did a course and I was freaked out that they asked me to record a five minute video and I was like, No way on earth am I doing a five minute video.

And here we are a couple of years later and just, I'm so deep into LinkedIn lives, and this is what I wanna talk about with you because I'd love to encourage more people to be creators, especially if they're employees of other businesses, because if you wanna grow your business, Activating those employees, there's just so many advantages.

But what happens is when people come and watch your show, and I'm gonna encourage people to go to your profile, there'll be links in the show notes and hit that bell so you don't miss Cher's lives cause they're fabulous. I always love them. But I think people think that you just woke up one day and it was all magically this amazing.

And they do the same with me, they're like, Michelle, you speak so [00:03:00] great. And I'm like, yeah, it didn't happen by magic. So we're gonna talk about the hard work that people think is magic and the evolution.

 Tell me something. You operate in the space of personal branding around employees specifically, and you talk about personal branding as an art versus a science.

Can you tell people a little bit more around that? Cause I just loved when I read that on your profile.

Cher Jones: Okay, so the interesting thing about personal branding is there is a science to it in the sense of the fact that, for me, everything that I do is rooted in a communications strategy because that was my original, foray into comms and stuff like that. I worked in PR and communications and everything had to have a comms plan.

So I think everybody, especially your brand at work, needs a communications plan and, that's where it ends. You've got that structure, but then how do you bring you into it? How do you stand out? Because you could have 10 people, 20 people, a hundred people with the exact same title as you.

How [00:04:00] do you bring yourself to life in your brand? And that's the way. And really what you look at is your journey to get to where you are. Everybody has that unique journey and it's being able to articulate it well in a way that people actually lean in and wanna know more and remember you for it.

Michelle J Raymond: And the thing is, so many people are scared because they think it's all been said before. They've got nothing original to say. They're worried about the judgment from other people. There can be all kinds of other things that hold them back. What kinds of barriers do you see with the employees that you are working with? What are the main things that they're pushing back saying, look, I know I should build my personal brand, but, and what's the but that comes after?

Cher Jones: They're afraid, just like you said they're afraid and usually people say no to what they don't know, and that's something that is so important and that is why companies need to invest in training so that they can, it's almost like the training is giving them permission, to put their brands out there because they didn't [00:05:00] know they could.

Usually that's it. Because the people who are afraid of putting their brands out there, they're usually not the ones that I'm worried about. You know what I mean? The ones who are just not trying to do it, they're usually afraid, right? They're not the ones that need the guidance, but where they do need the guidance in that sense is they're more likely to bore the internet.

You know what I mean? So they're more likely to put out boring stuff and just share the company post without any context and not making it relevant. And so there's so much around articulating, you are awesome. And that takes a lot of work too to help them uncover that and then pick the right things that are relevant to what they do now.

And then as well writing that. They just need that help. Most people are not writers, so they need that help and that guidance. And then again, the same thing happens over when they need to when they need to share content they don't know how or create it.

Michelle J Raymond: I [00:06:00] think I underestimated just exactly what it was like to be a beginner. I've been creating on LinkedIn for around eight years now, so not quite as long as you, but pretty consistently day after day for that amount of time.

And I forgot what it was like back at the beginning to not know. How do I write a connection message? And I was like, what do you mean you don't know? You can just, you know, hi, this is me. I'm interested, we're in the same industry, or whatever my messages are. And then when I'm working with clients, they're staring at me blankly, looking for guidance going, but what do I write to connect?

And I think there becomes this fear when we come onto LinkedIn where we've gotta do it right, where it's gotta be done a certain way and I guess for me, employees have a lot at stake. I think there's a judgment from your peers, from your boss. What if I'm on LinkedIn during work hours? I don't think I've worked with too many businesses that have actually got a social media policy in place at the beginning that protects the [00:07:00] employees, not just the business, but sets employees up for success.

So what do you think? Before a company thinks, okay, I'm gonna go out there. I'm gonna invest in training with Cher or Michelle, and I want my employees to be creating on LinkedIn cause I can see the value. What do they need to do before they get started?

Cher Jones: They gotta know their why. So why are they gonna leverage their employees and how are they gonna leverage their employees?

So when I say why, what are we gonna direct this effort towards? Is it about talent attraction? Is it about putting more thought leadership out there? Is it about showcasing culture? Is it about employee retention? They've got to think about those whys and then they have to think about what does that look like for our Company?

And how comfortable are we in doing that? Do we have the budgets to do what we want? Or do we start smaller? Are there little things that we can experiment with first and then grow to feel out exactly who we are? What kind of guidelines are we gonna put [00:08:00] in place?

So there's a lot of different questions that most companies, before they even tap into leveraging their employee creators, they really have to get just the logistics of what I just mentioned, as well as are they gonna support them when it comes to creating that content.

So that could be buying equipment. Buying software or working with third parties to help them edit, because that's usually what I see is like when they start, they've got the content production in place, but then they have to remember their employees are not content creators by profession.

And they usually need that professional help to get it over the line.

Michelle J Raymond: I agree with you on all of that. Where do you think senior management fits into this? So CEOs, C levels, the people at the top. Do they have to be a part of the program or do you think it can start elsewhere?

Cher Jones: I think it's important that if they're not visually a part of it or visibly a part of it, they need to [00:09:00] be Visually a part of it in the sense of they need to be there supporting, they need to know that they have the support, they need to know that that level of leadership is looking at the content and supporting the content, not watching it for mistakes, but looking at it for support, sending messages privately to encourage that, hey, we see you and it's a good thing.

And so yes, but preferably, I would love to see them a part of it. I think that's the best bet because when you see them being social, when they're modeling the behaviour, so sometimes when the training starts at the top, and I'm not talking about, the policy side, I'm talking about them actually getting out there and being social.

When their employees see that it's okay, and when their employees see that they're interacting and engaging with those who are already social, it incentivises others to get noticed and that sort of attention. And then of course it really feels great when as an employee you're featured in content or you're showcased and [00:10:00] celebrated in a town hall because they bring up your post and say, Hey, this is a great example of an awesome post, and here's why.

Michelle J Raymond: How amazing is acknowledgement in this process? If you want your employees to get out there and enthusiastically create not under force, this is what I wanna get around. Like not under force. Not because you just went and spent, an amazing amount of money on training. But because they actually want to, and I think when the CEO leads by example or the senior management team, then it almost creates that space for other people to follow.

That the behavior and as you said, permission to do it on LinkedIn and don't think people think why does anyone need permission? I don't think any business ever goes of course they can create on LinkedIn. And it's just not really that simple because as an employee, I'm thinking what happens if I post something and it's dumb?

Am I gonna lose my job? And I'm the sole breadwinner. I've got a family to feed. Times are tough financially, and I'm putting this all at risk for what? cause [00:11:00] normally, as you said, they're not getting paid to do this as a full-time creator. It's an add-on to an existing job. So for me, I think, CEOs that are listening, business owners, C-Suites, you just really need to get involved and lead by example and make it a priority. I think people can find time for things that are important to them.

Cher Jones: Oh, I absolutely agree and I think one great approach where people can dip their toe in the water is creating a pilot. So this is something where they come up with, let's say it's a pilot podcast, blog series, or video series, whatever it is.

Come up with the, the pilot episode. Come up with, well this is what it's gonna look like. This is what it could look like is cause usually that first pilot episode is not gonna be the episode they post. But it gives them an idea of the process. It gives people, rather than saying no right away to something, it gives people something to see and envision and also just put, give their buy-in and their feedback so that they can improve it.[00:12:00]

And so I think that's really an important process. And Michelle, it might be something that you might be doing with your clients already, is helping them develop that pilot version of what this could look like. And and that could be like just a series, a content series where there's a beginning, middle, and an end and it allows 'em to test the water, see what it's like and grow from there.

Michelle J Raymond: I think the important piece that you just said there is grow from there. For me personally, again, people have this expectation that everything on LinkedIn specifically that we're talking about today, needs to be polished and perfect. And the first iteration is going to be perfect, and it'll just be even more perfect after that.

But I just want, again, I'm gonna keep saying it over and over again in this episode that when we start creating on LinkedIn, Where you go to where you end up and the journey in between. It's part of the fun, but it's not exactly comfortable at the beginning. It's so uncomfortable.

What do you find [00:13:00] when you are working with your clients? Because for me it's those first few weeks, which are so critical when everyone's judging themselves more than anyone on LinkedIn combined is judging them. We're our own worst critics. But do you see that as well?

Cher Jones: I see that with myself. So if I see it with myself, someone who has a studio in their place that can turn on the lights, go, lights, camera, action, go, and yet still I am dealing with whether it comes to imposter syndrome or just not feeling my best or whatever the case may be, those are things that we all have to deal with.

And one of the things that I have to remind myself when I am not feeling the best when I show up on, on camera, and I have to remind myself is that people see angles of me that I can't see. So they already know what I look like. Okay. So you are only dealing with the reality of comparing what you see now to what your imagination tells you look like, right?

So that's sometimes what it [00:14:00] is. And for most people it's just show up on camera, like you would show up in front of a client, and that's good enough. This is not television. It's not that serious. It's just social media and it is pushing it forward and just doing it. But I recognise with empathy and being able to look inward and know that it's me too, that it is a scary place.

And sometimes even if you've been doing it a long time, if you stop for a bit, it gets scary again. But you gotta push through it.

Michelle J Raymond: I found when I quit my corporate job and I was creating content as part of my account manager role in a previous life, and because I was getting paid to actually sell raw materials and ingredients in the beauty industry, my pay was gonna come in anyway.

Didn't matter what I posted. It was almost like a hobby for me. Fast forward, I set up my own business and then all of a sudden people are gonna pay me to train them on how to use LinkedIn, and my mindset just went out the window. The pressure that I put on myself to be the best, to be perfect.

That [00:15:00] imposter syndrome. She was real. She had to get kicked to the curb because I was drowning in my own thoughts. And my trick for people is always, if you're stuck in those thoughts, the easiest way to get out of it that I've discovered is just go back to why are you doing this? What's the impact that you have on other people?

And what's it like when they have that breakthrough? And for me, as soon as I think about those light bulb moments that go with my clients, I get outta my own head and I'm back into the game and it's just so much easier to create.

And for me, I also find people try so hard to be a LinkedIn version of themselves. My words for it is you have to be a digital twin. So who you are off LinkedIn is who you need to be on LinkedIn, not this LinkedIn version of yourself. It will kill you trying to keep up with that facade.

Do you have any words for people that are struggling trying to be a LinkedIn version of themselves?

Cher Jones: It's interesting because I would say a [00:16:00] lot of the people that I'm working with, they're usually not even leveled up to LinkedIn yet. So they are like, they're settling. So they're settling for whatever's on there, and then when you settle, it's like you get what you get and don't get upset.

So to them I say stop settling and start branding because you need to. People don't recognise how much your brand is a tool at work. This is where you get strategic about your brand and start to use it to help you. And when employers actually recognise that their employees brands become credibility validators.

Because we all look people up online before we decide to take their phone call, their email, respond, send them a meeting request or whatever. We need to know who it is we're dealing with. And this is why I think it is so important for employers now to recognise that they can really create an incredible brand experience by teaching their employees how to brand [00:17:00] themselves.

But back to your question around that being that LinkedIn version of yourself. I think that once we're imagining a different version, going back to even what you said, you gotta be you. And it's easier said than done sometimes until you get used to being you.

Michelle J Raymond: It really is. And it's that self-doubt. And I think perfectionism is something that is rife. Like I was talking to a client yesterday and I said, why haven't you posted before? And he goes I've written lots of posts. And I'm like, I couldn't find them online. He goes, no, I deleted them. Now this is somebody that is, Honestly, at the top of his game has done the most amazing, incredible things.

Running his own consultancy, helping other huge businesses, like not little businesses.

Cher Jones: Right?

Michelle J Raymond: And people respect him. But when it came to posting on LinkedIn, He literally deletes it. So we've got a bit of work to do on that place.

But over COVID Cher, everybody moved to working remotely, sometimes in the office, sometimes mixtures with hybrid [00:18:00] workplaces.

What have you noticed as any differences in the process when you're trying to help employees build their personal brands and enthusiastically create content on LinkedIn?

Cher Jones: I think where there's been a missing gap or a missing piece is really that connection between the employees, because now they have to collaborate or they don't know each other as well as they used to.

Recognising that content, in addition to on LinkedIn, but sharing content between each other whether it's about their work, whether it's about the things that they do, the culture stuff, it matters even more. So using that as a belonging tool is actually a strategy that a lot of companies now just have to start thinking about.

And so that becomes that internal strategy for content whether it's intranet, newsletters or anything like that or even within reports coming out where they're highlighting videos of their staff, their clients or whatever.

I think it's just that much more important that there is that level of [00:19:00] connection and encouraging all the employees to celebrate and also comment, when it makes sense, on other people's posts. Cause you don't want it to be a pod. But at the same time you do wanna make sure that there's that comradery and encouragement.

Michelle J Raymond: Are you saying force isn't going to work?

Cher Jones: Apparently not.

Michelle J Raymond: Who would've thought, right? This is what I'm out to put a stop. You can't force people. And one of the other tools that LinkedIn gives us if you are part of a business that's got more than 10 employees, is the My Company tab on your Company Page, which allows you to almost create, it's like an intranet that only employees that are allowed in there. So it's a private space and you can see what's happening around the world if you happen to be an international company. And it will say what other posts are going on, what milestones are going on. And so it becomes a place where, LinkedIn would describe it, like that water cooler, the virtual water cooler where everyone comes together.

So I have to say I was doing some research [00:20:00] about that just last week and I kind of did realise how much I miss having those incidental conversations that you have when you're in an office. So now I don't go to an office. It's one of those things that I was like, yeah, you don't know a lot about people if you are not just having those.

Hey, how was your weekend? And off it goes. Or did you watch the last episode of this? And off the conversation goes. So I love that you said you can learn more about your colleagues by just seeing what they're putting out there. So I really love that as another angle to have a look at it.

If a workplace actually gets this right, what does it look like?

Cher Jones: That is very few places are getting it totally right yet. I haven't seen it where someone they're, they're like, bang on. They get pieces of it, right? They've got better branded employees. Especially, one of the places to anchor in on is look at who your influencers are right now.

And not just, by position, but people who generally have influence. They're out in front of people. Or they're culture influencers or they [00:21:00] are subject matter experts. I'm always talking about internal. But take a look at those people first and start with them. And that could be a pilot project in itself where you're taking your employee influencers and going through the process of one, making sure their brands reflect who they are and what they do now, not what they did to get the role that they're in, but what they do now.

Because that's so much more relevant, especially on the top side of the LinkedIn profile because I don't work with job seekers at all. I only work from the experience section up, not the experience section down. Getting that so that they show up at conferences, they show up on Zoom meetings, they show up at work, well-branded.

So you know, what they do, what they serve, like that's important. And then also having this like collective hive of people who are creating content, or even if they're not creating content, it's when a company's employees actually know how to share that company's content in a way that's relevant. And that requires training.

You would think it was easy, just hit the share button. That doesn't work. [00:22:00] No one cares. So it's like the so what, who cares? And how do you flip that? And then also, again, coming back to where I think when it looks right, is thinking of social media beyond the newsfeed, right? So thinking about how their brands become a tool for work, a tool for success, at work so that we've connected how their brand connects to their performance objectives.

Cause when you can make that connection and see success and you don't have to be in a sales role just to see that. But when you do that that is important. When they have leadership programs or DEI programs, you can supercharge the success of that program by teaching your employees how to have an internal networking strategy as well.

It's so hard to say what it looks like, because I guess really at the end of the day, it's what did you start with? What was your objective for doing this in the first place? And then if they're hitting that objective, then that's success because social's just too big to take the whole thing on.

Michelle J Raymond: It [00:23:00] is ginormous, and I love the idea of having those targets and goals because I think then that then drives the resourcing that needs to be put aside so that you can support people to create, and whether that's training like you said, or whether it's an acknowledgement process. I think there needs to be a formal way of acknowledging these people that they're creating, whether it's highlighting posts, like you said at town halls, or asking them to go and create special pieces of content and really supporting them as they go through that journey, because quite often, as you said, that they're doing this of their own free will.

There's not often something in their pay that supports them on this. So I love all of those kind of things. And I think I'd also just add a social media policy, set everyone up for success at the beginning. People need to know where they stand and I read too many social media policies, if the company has one, and here's what happens.

You will not use your company mobile during office hours. You will not access social media on your office mobile. And it's just all of these rules that protect the company, but nothing [00:24:00] that sets the employees up for success.

The scariest documents I think I've ever read is most social media policies. They are certainly not encouraging anyone to create. They're probably scaring them more than anything. So just have a think about that.

Last thing, because I caught one of your LinkedIn Lives, I'm gonna guess it was probably about a month ago. Like time has flown and you were sharing about your evolution as a creator.

And it really made me think of mine. So, I want you to explain some of the iterations of you as a creator. So we see your lives right now. You've got a magical studio, lots of lights, lots of equipment. Where did it start and how did you get there?

Cher Jones: Oh, it started on my son's bunk bed with a Logitech 920C, okay. So it started way back when and it was really interesting. I literally rigged my laptop and the webcam to the bed so that I was looking up as [00:25:00] opposed to like on the desk. And, we've all done the grab a million books. And so I was like, no, I could use the bunk bed, that's perfect and hang it off of there.

I don't know what I was just like MacGyver and then moving from the bunk bed to the basement. And then moving from there then I moved to a completely different place and I just had a room at that time, and so my bed was behind. I didn't have any space to have an office.

So I had a pop-up screen that was like a photographer screen. It was a gray wall. But really the bed was behind the wall. And I used that for a while. And then I moved into my first, this is my second studio, but my first one was a room and I had a nice corner set up and that was the corner, and it was like lights on camera, action go.

Whereas as you evolve, like in this place now, I have three spots. I can make up probably about six angles, but three major areas that I can do multiple cameras, all the tech and stuff like that. But this [00:26:00] is a course of, I'm not kidding probably eight years, maybe like eight, nine years.

Cause I was doing like YouTube at that time it was called Google Hangouts on Air. The evolution of a creator is, Start with what you have and then level up a little bit. And then level up a little bit more. It does not make sense to buy the $3,000 camera, all the lights cause you're still gonna make crappy content.

I know that sounds awful, but that's the way it works. Work with what you have and then set these milestones. So my boyfriend always talks about, you know, gear acquisition syndrome, so he calls it GAS, right? And it's just like too many creators, period have GAS, right? And they're just buying way too much equipment that they don't need.

So instead of doing that, set milestones. So when I create a certain amount of videos, then I get a new camera because you don't need the new camera. Our phones, I heard Gary V say this yesterday, our phones have a better camera than they did to shoot movies 20 [00:27:00] years ago. So you're good.

Whatever phone you have, you're pretty much good. So like just start with what you got and then step milestones based off of creating.

Michelle J Raymond: I think it's topic over tech is the simple answer. And I was laughing, thinking back to when I first started creating my video and I would read, okay, you have to do it horizontal, because that was the way at that time, it wasn't the vertical style these days.

So it was horizontal and I'd turn my phone and I'd look at myself in the middle and then I'd come out and I'd look cross-eyed in the video. And so I researched for, I can't even tell you how much to try and work out, How do I not look like I'm shifty with my eyes to the side when I'm recording on an iPhone.

Which I do have the answer. If anyone wants it, we can reach out to me, I'll share because it's those little things. I had the $15 ring light was my next evolution. I had a box under my laptop. I think from there I went to my webcam and from there I then invested in a microphone. And even my microphone right now is, [00:28:00] I think in America it's about 70 US. It's about just over a hundred here in Australia.

And I'm dreaming about upgrading to your fabulous little microphone that you've got. But ultimately, if I'm talking about rubbish and I don't have good content, it does not matter about all the fancy bells and whistles because people will switch off.

 But I really wanted to share it because, I love that you're so open and honest about it, and I really enjoyed that live. I wanna inspire people to know, your employees will not get it right the first time. Your employees, forever and ever will be evolving and getting better. And the more you support them uh, with training or investing in time or resources, the more that they'll improve.

So Cher, I love to wrap these things up with a tip that you would give people who want to take action. What would be your tip this week?

Cher Jones: So my tip this week would definitely set out a day that you're actually going to make content, even if it's just three hours, and I'm [00:29:00] speaking to, I'm preaching to the choir right now.

I'm literally talking to myself. It's like you've gotta set the time aside and then don't plan for just one piece, plan for three. Even if you don't get them all done and then plan, that is not the day that you're gonna post it. So relax, you just made it. A lot of people, they'll, make something and then they'll post it that night cause they're done. And it's just relax, plan for when you're gonna post it, but plan for when you're gonna work on it. So especially if you're just getting back into the game. You gotta know what your next is. Don't just plan for your now. So that would be my tip.

Michelle J Raymond: I love it. And thankfully now we have the scheduling tool within LinkedIn that you can create when works for you and schedule when works for your audience, which I am loving so much.

Cher Jones, I'm gonna recommend that everybody goes to your profile. In the top right hand corner underneath the banner is a bell. You want to go and click on that bell? I'm gonna tell you a second time, cause you do not want to miss the content that Cher puts out.

So I appreciate you coming on the show this week. I appreciate everything that you've shared and I hope that [00:30:00] we've inspired some people out there to really create content as employees to create amazing brands. And if you are the business owner or the CEO, you've got some homework, it's time to start putting back into them. And you know what goes around, comes around is what my nan says, so there's wins for everybody if we work together towards that goal that you recommend.

So thank you so much and I will catch everybody next week. Cheers.