The Power of Presence Social Media Tactics for Business Leaders with Katie Brinkley

Michelle J Raymond: [00:00:00] Welcome everybody to the Social Media for B2B Growth Show. I'm your host, Michelle J Raymond, and do not adjust your sets, if you are watching this live or on the replay on YouTube, this is Katie Brinkley joining the show, 90s hip hop style. Welcome my friend.

Katie Brinkley: I love that we've whipped out our bonding outfits from Social Media Marketing World to have this conversation.

Michelle J Raymond: Exactly. So for those of you who haven't seen previous photos, when I went to Social Media Marketing World, there was a 90s hip hop theme for the conference party, and I'm just going to throw it out there, Katie. I think you and I were best dressed. I've only got part of my outfit on. But I think we should have taken out the prizes, except I went home early, so I missed out on that. Couldn't stay out late enough.

Katie Brinkley: You had a much bigger time time change than I think anyone else there. So understandably you left a little early, but it, you definitely rocked your outfit as well. I got second place [00:01:00] with my outfit. It is a full jumper jumpsuit onesie thing, but it was a blast and it was definitely a bonding experience for both of us.

Michelle J Raymond: So if you are listening to this on the audio podcast, I'm just going to put the picture here. We have, I've got my chains on my sunglasses, got my ring. And then Katie's in this full, fluro pink jumpsuit. So go and check it out on the YouTube channel if you don't. So I'm going to take my glasses off and get a little serious for a moment.

Not that serious. Cause I want to have some fun with this conversation. Because here's what's going on, Katie. I know you and I share this passion is there's so many business leaders out there, CEOs, we're calling you out that are still skeptical about getting themselves out there on social media. Now LinkedIn's my jam.

That's the place where I love to hang out most. But, I don't really care about the platform. I just think it's important that they get out there. Am I preaching to the choir here?

Katie Brinkley: 100%. LinkedIn is one of my favorite [00:02:00] platforms. I feel like it's like Facebook 2014. It has an algorithm that still likes you. People are there just to have conversations. It's not 100 percent pay to play. If you have an ad spend, it does help, but I mean, LinkedIn is awesome. It's one of my favorite platforms and I've found great connections that happen from the LinkedIn world.

Michelle J Raymond: Yeah, absolutely. Now, one of the things that comes up for people when they're, you know, in these leadership positions is, and my friend Zineb put it in the comments on this event and she said, I think some leaders out there think that the only leaders posting on social media are those whose businesses don't do great and they've got enough time to do it. And I was like, I think you've got something here. Do you come up against that with people that you're working with?

Katie Brinkley: You know, I saw that comment too. And I was like, that is a really that was a great comment. And it just shows you the power of engaging on social media because here we are talking about [00:03:00] it on the actual podcast live stream now. And I think that it goes twofold. There is such a thing as showing up a little bit too much. And then just having a solid presence. And this is where, I have a little bit of a different strategy than a lot of business owners when it comes to how to create content online and how often to show up.

But I think there is a difference between being an influencer and being a content entrepreneur. So creating content that's going to drive leads and revenue. And I think that LinkedIn is one of the best spots to have that mentality around what type of content is actually going to convert my audience and then grow my community.

Michelle J Raymond: Absolutely. And I love that LinkedIn has that flexibility that it can work for either. And, I know we'll dive into this a little bit later, but I absolutely am on board with first start with business [00:04:00] goal. What are you trying to achieve? Then look at the resources that you can put towards it. And that's going to be very different for a senior leader in a business to someone full time as a creator or looking to be a creator entrepreneur, as you said.

And so these are the things that I want to step through today, but let's start at the very beginning for those that might be skeptical, sitting on the fence or having troubles getting their leadership team, on to some of these social platforms. Why do you think it's important that people have a presence on social media when they're in these leadership teams in 2024?

Katie Brinkley: I think that if there's anything that we learned from COVID and the entire world getting shut down, it's how important it is to have a presence online and the power of connecting and community that can happen online. So i'm in Colorado and There's a huge we're big Avalanche. We're big hockey fans my family and I remember I went to an Avalanche game with my uncle [00:05:00] pre COVID and he we saw Zoom it said Zoom on one of the boards and he's like what's Zoom and I was like Oh, it's like for video calls.

He's like Video calls who does that? I was like well, I mean I I kind of use it, every now and then like some people, but if you think about it back in 2019, it was still weird just to hop onto a Zoom and even if you were on Zoom, turning your camera on.

Now, this, what we're doing right now, it feels just the same as it would be if we were to hang out in real life. We're all my thumbs up. We're all used to having digital relationships and having that digital presence and LinkedIn is one of the best spots for you to grow your personal brand. People want to do business with people and heaven forbid we ever go through another shutdown, like what we went through back in 2020.

But if you learned anything from that terrible time, it's that [00:06:00] you have to show up and people want to buy from people. So your logo, all the beautiful brand kits, those are extremely important, but they're only going to take you so far. What people want to buy from is your story, how you make them feel and build the community that you foster, in this digital world.

Michelle J Raymond: It's really interesting. And I'm with you. I hope we never go through anything like that, but I think you're right. It did actually change the way we do business. If I, look at my own story, I quit in March, 2020. So peak COVID just about to take off.

No way in the world did I ever imagine what was about to happen for the next 12 months? And I'd be in lockdown for most of that year. But thank God for tools like Zoom and building a community and being known like that, because now I've worked with people in, I don't know, it's probably 20 different countries around the world now, which I just think is mind blowing.

And the same time I work with people here locally, and I have [00:07:00] that opportunity to choose where I want to invest my time and build that community. And I'm starting to see in the B2B space now that people are going, oh, I think we have to embrace this digital marketing thing. This social media, they got burned when they didn't have anything as a backup.

I look at my old sales jobs that I had for 20 years. We did customer visits. We did trade shows. We did paraded overseas visitors and said, Hey, come and buy my stuff. And that all went out the window for that year. Now I'm not saying that, something that extreme might happen, but they realize the power of having an online presence and you can just see on LinkedIn, how much money LinkedIn is pouring into their B2B campaigns, B2B believe.

And, at the same time, the trust in brands is, literally going, falling through the floor. No one trusts content from brands. So this is again, why it's so important for those leaders and CEOs to get out there. So, I know that we touched on it briefly [00:08:00] about Zineb's comment about only businesses that are going slow and have problems, have their leaders out there.

But what would you say to a CEO that basically comes back to you and says, I don't have time for social media. I've got a business to run. Why should they make time?

Katie Brinkley: I want to touch really quick on what you said too, about the whole digital marketing thing and how people realized in 2020, how Oh, I really wasn't paying attention to like any of this.

And I think now we know having an email list, having some presence on social media, whether it's LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, wherever it is, you have to have a plan B. If you're not on social media in some regard, it's like you don't have a website. And if you were to say, okay well, Katie, how can our viewers connect with you?

And I said, Oh you can send me a letter or stop by my office. People would be like, wait, what you want me to I'll pass hard pass. So I think that's [00:09:00] one really important thing to keep in mind is that having some sort of a social media presence is just as important as having a website.

Now, in regards to your most recent question with How important is it to have, or how much time should people be spending on it? I get it. I have a social media agency, but I'm a business owner first. So I don't have time to be creating, you know, 38 videos and TikToks and, I don't, I'm not Gary Vee.

I don't have a team of content creators taking, one three minute video of me going to garage sale and turning it into, a month's worth of content. That's just not me. And so I think that this is where you have to have a strategy behind your social media. What Is it to build your email list?

Is it for leads? Is it to sell a webinar? What do you want to accomplish with every post? And if you know that going into it, you really don't need to post so much. I think that you [00:10:00] can have a very successful social media strategy in as little as one hour a week. But the biggest thing is what is the goal? Who am I talking to? And how are we going to present this to our target audience?

And that's, that's where you, you have to know your ideal client, your ideal av, av client avatar inside and out. My friend Red calls it your invisible best friend. And if you have that, it's going to make content creation so easy.

Michelle J Raymond: Yeah, absolutely. I look at it that it's the game plan in my framework. If you don't have that, you wander around aimlessly, you get sucked down the feed and, six months later, you come back to me and you say, Michelle, LinkedIn doesn't work for my business. It doesn't work for me. I tried it and nothing happened.

And I always come back to, what was your game plan? And they look at me oh post three times. No, you've skipped about six steps. We don't even get to posting before we've got those things sorted out. And I'm with you. I want people to [00:11:00] focus on running the business. Absolute as the priority and these social things should fit in and around that.

And yeah, I'm with you. I'm not prescribing to the Gary Vee post a hundred bits of content a day. I don't have a team that's like that either. It would be a different style of business. Be everywhere, do everything. I tried that in the beginning, Katie. And honestly, because when I started my business, people were like, Oh, you can't have all your eggs in one basket and you should be on this and on that.

And I hated Twitter. Like I never liked it. I was never on it at personally. Instagram is not my jam, like photos and creative is not what, you know, it's not what I enjoy and it's not how my brain works to create content. So I hated that. So I was spending all this time on things that I was doing half baked though.

I wasn't even doing them properly just because I thought I should. So I decided to simplify things and strip it back. And one of my guests very early [00:12:00] on, on this podcast, Tuomo, shout out to him. Cause we were talking about high performance and what he said to me is Michelle, Simplification leads to Mastery.

And that has stuck with me. So the better I got at stripping things back so I could focus on the things that I do and do them well, What do you know? It works way better. Who would have thought? Mind blowing, right?

Katie Brinkley: Exactly. And I think that that is like, that's one of the very first things I do when I sit down with a new client is most of the time we eliminate different social media platforms and go down to one or two platforms. And I think that having so a lot of our clients have just a podcast and LinkedIn, because I think those are two really valuable ways to build out a community. There's something amazing about the power of voice. You can tell when I get excited and stumble over my words or get really excited over something Michelle just shared.

You can hear that by [00:13:00] the fluctuations of my voice. And it allows people to connect with you on a whole different level. And then LinkedIn, man, you can share audio, video, written word, pictures, you can, and the algorithm is still nice. So I think that having a strategy in place as to where you want to focus your time and efforts and really knocking it out of the park is so important.

And I love that you shared Michelle, that Instagram just isn't your jam and that's okay. I'm not on TikTok. You know why short form video is not for me. I have got two little girls, they're six and nine. They hear one sound come out of this phone and they're like, what are you doing, mom?

Can I see, I want to look at, and it's Oh my God, no, go away. I'm not looking at social media at all, it's going to burn your eyes. So I'm not on TikTok, but give me a good old fashioned LinkedIn article. And I'm all in, I'll spend five minutes reading that article, going through the different tips and takeaways.

Cause [00:14:00] I, that's how I best consume content. So knowing how you best consume content and knowing that there's a variety of ways for you to create that content on the platform is a game changer.

Michelle J Raymond: I couldn't say it better myself. I'm with you. Give me a good LinkedIn newsletter any day, because I love when people expand their thoughts and really deep dive into things and I'm a bit over the whole short manufactured clips of, little short form posts and things like that. I want to know more. My way of working and doing things is to understand how things work. So then I can understand how I can best use that. And with short form, you can't always do that. I'm with you with TikTok I don't go there.

I don't want to go down that rabbit hole. I have to protect where I spend my time and energy. And just because, other people think it's popular or it's the cool kids or whatever, it's not right for my business right now. And so again, back to that simplification here so I can build a really strong presence.[00:15:00]

And yes, LinkedIn is my platform where I choose to do that with the backup plans. And we're going to talk about those a little later, cause I think they're really important for different reasons. But I guess we touched on that, but is there anything else that you would say to a leader or a business owner that's, thinking about, okay, how do I make this part of my business?

How do I get active on insert, doesn't matter which platform, but where should they start? And is there a way that you help people choose where they should show up?

Katie Brinkley: Yeah, I think that one of the best ways to get started is to figure out who it is that you're well, one, who your, your, your ideal client and customer is.

That's really important because I mean, creating content takes time. And if you're creating a ton of it, how much time could you then put towards growing your business. So you have to know this is where it's makes sense for me, the best ROI. And then two, what platforms do you like being on?

If I tell you, Michelle, I'm going to be able to [00:16:00] get you massive results from TikTok, you just have to record 10 videos a day for me. You're going to be like, I still don't want to do that. It's not, I don't want to do it. So you have to know one, where do you enjoy spending time? Because right now, the people that are watching us live on LinkedIn, and I can see, that David has commented, and Eman has commented. They're part of our community now.

 They're connecting, they're commenting, I, there's a face to go with the name. And that's where the magic happens. If you're on social media, leaving comments and engaging with other people's posts, man, that is one of the best ways to build out your following just by, by leaving those comments on other people's posts.

And I'm not talking about the spammy, three heart emojis or anything like that. Like the three fire emojis, those just, that's not engaging content. But if you're actually Reading and saying, you know, saying I agree with this or like the comment that someone left, [00:17:00] promoting this live about, Oh I don't know if I see people posting too much. Again, it made its way into this episode.

So that's the stuff that's really going to drive more traffic to your account. You have to enjoy the platform that you're on and you have to enjoy creating that type of content that's for that platform and know who it is that you're talking to. Like I know the majority of my done for you clients come from LinkedIn.

And then I know the majority of my book sales and my courses come from Instagram. So I have very different messaging between those two platforms. I'm not going to go and talk about my full done for you services on Instagram. My following over there is not ready to buy that. They're not interested in it.

Michelle J Raymond: It's really interesting. And speaking about your book, The Social Shift, I was able to grab a signed copy from you when we caught up at Social Media Marketing World, and I'll make sure the details are in the show notes so that if anyone wants to check it out, I've read it, we're going to talk about some of the other stuff that's in it.

So I appreciate you for giving me a copy while we were over there. Cause it's really [00:18:00] fabulous. And shout out to Joe Pulizzi for helping you get that out there. Cause it really is. It was something for me, you know, I went back and I was like, yeah, I was there at MySpace days as well. You'd be in my top five and it just shows you that this social media thing, it's not going away.

You've had your time to think it's a fad. I think we're over 20 years now. It's time to actually realize this thing's not going away and you've got to do it your own way. And I think that's the important piece of this that I want to convey the message of, I call it a digital twin. It's how you show up, if I was to meet your face to face is how I want you to be, in my case on LinkedIn for other platforms, it doesn't matter, but I want you to be yourself.

And I think people get hung up on, they've got to be a LinkedIn version of themselves and show up in a particular way, and it feels awkward and uncomfortable. Or maybe you've got the marketing manager going, go and say this or do this. And it doesn't sit with you. So the more you can share your own voice, I think the easier it [00:19:00] becomes.

Now we're going to talk about content in a moment, but I have a question for you. And it might get spicy. It might not. How do you see the role of ghostwriters or, you know, in your case, it might be the done for you services that you offer for people in this business?

Do you, Like, how do we balance the helping people out cause they're busy versus losing their authentic voice. You do this for your clients. So what do you think is the right way to strike that balance?

Katie Brinkley: Oh man, that is a tricky question, Michelle, because it is so important to have your voice, your values, what you think, cause that's your differentiator. That's what people want to buy. That's what they are saying. Let's be real. I wish I could say I was the only done for you social media marketing agency in the world, but I'm not even in this office. There's another one just across the hall. There's a lot of people out there doing what you do.

How do you stand out from the crowd? And it's, it's you it's your voice and it's, it's what makes you different. [00:20:00] So for us what we do is I have my own podcast, which you are going to be on in just a couple of weeks, but this is where I think that with having someone in your sphere that understands the questions to ask are so important.

So I, like I said, that's where I was going. I have a podcast, so I'm used to interviewing people and asking the questions. I have monthly calls with my clients. I record them. And a lot of times it seems like we're just catching up. Tell me how it went with that listing? Are you guys under contract yet?

Oh, you have another one. How has that been? Like just talking about these things, hearing it. And then I have an amazing content writer. She's a former ad advertising writer for stars network, which is like a H I don't know. Do you guys have HBO?

Michelle J Raymond: I know what you're talking about, but yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah.

Katie Brinkley: Yeah. So she used to write commercials for them. So she's used to getting in those different personas. [00:21:00] And this is where, again, like we have an entire spreadsheet of like, these are different words that they say regularly. They don't come up for air. They say, right, instead of breathing, right da da da da, right. and it's like, Oh my gosh.

So we have to incorporate that in their posts. So that way when someone's reading the post, they can actually hear their voice coming through the writing. So I have a really good writer. AI is incredible, but I've not found a great way for it to replace us yet. I think it is.

I think it's great for being as Ann Hanley has said, that robot on your shoulder, but not at the keyboard. You have to be there's, there's voices and there's experience that only you have had that a robot has never experienced. And just knowing how to share those stories is invaluable. So I think that you have to use it as if you're struggling for, [00:22:00] Hey, I want to tell the, tell a story about, so for example, I shared a story about how I learned to drive a stick shift.

And I was terrible at it. And my dad insisted that I drive the car home and I was still learning how to drive the stick. And all my friends were outside watching me and I kept stalling. I kept stalling. No, it is not a thumb, a thumbs up. No. I kept stalling. I kept stalling and I wanted to share this story, but I was having a hard time making it correlate with getting started with something new, like starting a podcast.

And I was like, help me bridge this gap because I think it's a great story. I just need help transitioning it over. And so I wrote the story. I put it in and it was like, what about if you do da, I was like, Oh, perfect. Okay. Thank you for the transition. Use it to help you not to replace you.

Michelle J Raymond: Yeah. I often find, I get stuck on the fence on this one. And depending on the day that you catch me, depends which way I [00:23:00] fly. I get really nervous when someone comes to me and says, I want to be a thought leader. Would you write all the posts for me? I'm like, no, I can't be you. And that's why I don't do personally much in the done for you space.

I only feel comfortable a couple of Company Pages that I might manage here and there. But ultimately I, I tried it in the beginning and I was like, that's not for me because I knew that I wasn't the right person and I felt like I was just faking it. And I was like, no, I want you to have your own voice.

And I know we're always balancing between it's okay to get help. There are some amazing copywriters and ghostwriters out there that can really help you capture your words. But as my friend, Ashley says, it's like, you're a thought leader. You can't outsource your thoughts. That's the thing that you can't do is outsource your thoughts to someone else and expect them to be doing all the heavy lifting for you.

And so when she said that to me, I was like, Yes. Okay. So I'm happy for someone to help you articulate those thoughts and get them out there, but you have to [00:24:00] start with the, this is what you want to get across. And so I think that's how I've reconciled it in my mind about how these things can work.

But if you think that you can just go and pay somebody for their services and say. You know what I'm going to pay you do three posts a week. I'm not going to show up on the calls. I'm not going to give you anything. I'm not going to do stuff. That's not what business leaders should be doing when they're on, spending time on social.

So I'm completely against that because the thing that we haven't really touched on is you're leading by example, the rest of your team is looking to you and saying well, if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. And if you're not showing up in any way or supporting other people that are, that gets noticed and that sets the standard, which is not what we want when we're trying to grow our businesses.

Katie Brinkley: Now, Michelle real fast before we move on to the next question. I love this so much. And I think that this is where having A podcast, having a video show, even it doesn't mean we've been going for [00:25:00] 28 ish minutes now.

It doesn't need to be this long. It can be a five minute show where you're talking about different, start with the FAQs on your website. And just sharing your thoughts about that. What makes you different? It doesn't need to be a super long show if you're not comfortable showing up on video yet Like it took me two years to turn on the video camera for my podcast. So So you have, that's going to be your differentiator.

And that's why so many of our clients, we push into either launching their own show or guesting on other people's shows, because that's where we can hear your thoughts. That's okay, so and so is a guest on this show. We've got a month's worth of content on great ideas on what makes them different.

Podcasting is huge. It's a great way for you to really share your differentiator and build out your thought leadership, if you are outsourcing the rest of your social media. This is what's going to help elevate your presence.

Michelle J Raymond: Yeah, absolutely is. [00:26:00] And looking at that in your book, The Social Shift, which again, it'll be in the show notes, you do talk about the power of YouTube and podcasts.

Why else do you think that leaders should be considering these two specifically? Because I'm a huge fan. I'll tell you why I went there. I got sick of all of my best work disappearing down the LinkedIn home feed, 48, 72 hours. Maybe sometimes bits and pieces show up later, but ultimately I was like, this stuff keeps disappearing and I'm putting my heart and soul into it.

And it's not really that. There's not a culture on LinkedIn where people are using the search bar. That's not what we do. We scroll the home feed for most people. And so I was like, how are people discovering it? So I went to YouTube because I figured, Oh, that's where people go to find answers. And it lives a lot longer.

And then the podcast was just because my, you know, my friend, Michelle Griffin, she's said Michelle, you need a podcast and I don't recommend people do it because someone else tells you to do it. I think you should have a strategy [00:27:00] as always, but at the time it was just about that. But I love the two of them, but why do you love them both?

Katie Brinkley: It's for the shelf life. And if you have a podcast, you really have a content generating machine. So for example, I do two episodes a week for my podcast. Every Tuesday is a guest interview and every Thursday is a solo episode. I've got lots and lots of content to share. One time I had a guest on JP Hightek and we talked all about YouTube and how to really be found through search with YouTube.

It was a great 30 minute episode. I shared about it. It got okay engagement and that was it. Then, there was this whole Meta and X and LinkedIn even got shut down for a few hours. I don't know if you guys remember that back in February and everyone was like, Whoa, power of email. But that's exactly it.

Things can happen like that. We are, we, who knows, let's just say they're, Bill Gates is tired of [00:28:00] LinkedIn and it's meh, that division's done. Now we've, now we've lost everything we've done. But what if you had a podcast? What if you had a YouTube channel? What if you had an email list and JP shared he had 126,000 followers on YouTube, and for some reason the algorithm on YouTube saw his content as I think like harmful or something. 

Michelle J Raymond: Like what?

Katie Brinkley: Like, like for weapons or something. He's like, I'm teaching digital marketing and he was stuck like trying in the help circle for months. It's like, I can't just keep waiting for a bot at YouTube to help me. And so he shared also in the episode, how his strategy to make sure that if that ever happened again, what his plan B was.

I didn't talk about that the first time I shared the podcast, I talked about how you can optimize your YouTube channel. This time I could share it again in a different way. It had a whole new life and it [00:29:00] was two months old when I shared it, but the content that he shared in the story he shared was very relevant for what was happening.

that day. So I think when you have that long form content, you can turn it into a blog. You can repurpose it a different way and share a different aspect of the story. You can, share it on YouTube. You can share it on your website. You have so much more, as far as content and gone are the days of the Canva.

I love Canva, but gone are the days of the generic Canva templates of happy mother's day or merry Christmas or whatever. Those days are gone. That is not social media anymore. Social media is this new way of sharing your story and showing up as the brand and sharing what it is that makes you different.

Michelle J Raymond: Absolutely. And shout out to JP, who's coming on the podcast in about three or four weeks, I think.

Katie Brinkley: Amazing, you can ask him about how he lost 126,000 followers and what the lessons he [00:30:00] learned.

Michelle J Raymond: Look, and I've had my own moment like that. When I wake up and I get a cease and desist letter from LinkedIn's lawyers about the podcast name, and I'm thinking, they say, if I don't do it, they're going to shut down my LinkedIn account.

And I've got to tell you that gave me a few, extra heartbeats at that minute. It was thumping. It can happen to anyone, anytime. It doesn't necessarily mean even that you've done something wrong. It's the bots, as you said, that pick something up and getting stuck in a customer service loop at any of the social platforms. You do not want to be there, my friends. That's a one way ticket to going crazy.

So I'm going to put my glasses back on, but as we wrap up the show, Katie, I want to know what is one last actionable tip that you've got for the listeners who might be leaders and, I want them to understand that this is a really powerful way to grow your business, you know, building a brand, building your presence on these platforms, but what is your last actionable tip fist bump? And so I can show off my ring.

Katie Brinkley: [00:31:00] Yeah. So I think that the biggest thing that I hope everyone will get, will get from today's conversation is the power of you. And not only you cause you are the business owner, you are the face and you have to be willing to step into The spotlight.

I'm not saying that if you're like, look, I'm trying to run a business. I don't have time to be posting all the time. My four post strategy will help, but you don't need to post all the time. Even if it's taking content from your content team that's publishing to your LinkedIn Company Page and sharing your thoughts on it.

That can take you maybe five minutes and stepping into the spotlight is going to make a world of difference for your business. You're going to find. People are, they might not necessarily be clicking that little thumbs up button or, commenting, but people are watching and when people are watching, they're talking.

And the next time you're in a [00:32:00] room, they're going to be noticing what you're doing. So step into the spotlight, embrace it because we're all content entrepreneurs in some regard.

Michelle J Raymond: Absolutely. And if you haven't listened to the episode with Joe Pulizzi, a few weeks back, we talk about that in detail and I just, love that conversation as much as I've loved this one, Katie. I am, certain that you and I would talk all day because we get so passionate about this particular topic and just want to help more people find their voice on LinkedIn and any social platform, podcasts, YouTube, you name it, there's space for everybody. And I think that's the thing I want you to understand is if you're holding yourself back because you think that it's all been said before, or why does, we've got a billion people on the platform. Why do we need another person?

The fact is we don't have one of you and it's important to lead by example. I appreciate you, my friend for coming on. You again, get the best dressed award for the podcast. And if you are listening to the audio, I think [00:33:00] go across to YouTube @MichelleJRaymond is the channel. Go and check it out. It is worth it. I am going to put my glasses on to wrap this show up.

Until next time, everybody. I appreciate all of you listeners. But until next time, cheers.